55 posts tagged clothing
[Image Description: Series of “before and after’ shots. The before pictures consist of a thin person wearing plus sized clothing from thrift shops. The after pictures consist of the same person wearing the same clothing refashioned and cut down to their size.]
I found this great blog today and had to share it :D
Refashionista is an amazing seamstress who refashions awful thrift-store finds into new clothes and some of these results are so amazing?? Check her out! :D
she is a goddess
So she’s taking plus sized clothing and making it into hipster wear for people who aren’t fat? Ok.
looks ten times better on her anyways
that is besides the point. She’s taking resources from plus sized people who likely need it more than she does. If she was really any good at her refashioning, she could use clothing that was her size(or close to it) and make her hipster monstrosities that way.
She’s not just taking plus sized clothing. She’s taking plus sized clothing for people who don’t have even have the option to buy into the monopolized world of plus size shops. I have friends who get 90% of their clothes from thrift stores. I get this is just one person, but fuck, you don’t need to be getting thrifted clothes that are more than twice your fucking size to repurpose them.
YOU ESPECIALLY DON’T NEED TO MAKE HUMILIATING CARICATURE-LIKE STANCES IN EVERY BEFORE PICTURE THAT MOCKS THE STANCE/POSTURING/AND SIMPLY THE SPACE FAT PEOPLE EXIST IN.
like how much do you have to hate fat people to do this.
I dunno i thought she did a great job
it’s not about whether she did a good job or not, she used plus sized clothes from a thrift shop to do this. It’s really hard to find plus sized clothes in the first place, and it’s even harder if you’re not wealthy. She’s taking away limited resources from people who actually need them. Plus in the before pictures she decided it would be cool to mock fat people by making weird caricature like stances as queenmerbabe said.
glad to hear poor fat people count as “nobody” in your mind. and tumblr is not a monolith.
Really?! Like A+ for creativity lady, but why didn’t you just go to a fabric store to get the supplies to make your clothes? It is really hard to find affordable plus size clothing. You’re what, a size 4? Go shopping in one of the thousands of other stores tailor-made for women your size. thisisthinprivilege This is super irritating.
So I just read this post about Lulu Lemon. As mentioned in it, there is a popular argument that thin privileged people like to use about how they can’t buy from a Plus Sized store so fat people shouldn’t whine about not being able to find clothes - well, just about everywhere else I guess.
Those plus size stores and boutiques are extremely expensive too. I could go to Target and get a 15-20 dollar pair of shorts with a 5-10 dollar top if I’m lucky enough to find my size. However if they don’t have my size or the largest size doesn’t fit well (this happens often because I have a thinner waist, big butt, and big boobs) I have to go to a plus size store and pay 35-40 for the shorts and 20-25 for the shirt. Which is more expensive on my end. Things wouldn’t be so bad if the “normal” stores made larger sizes with the same style as the thin sizes or the plus size stores lowered their prices. Also thin privilege is paying 10 dollars for a bra verses the 60 I have to pay per bra due to me wearing a 38F. You get 6 bras. I get 1. We’re paying the same amount but by the time I can afford a new bra my sides are being torn up and my boobs lack support due to the elastic weakening and the underwire escaping. So please, if you’re thin, consider that before complaining about the expensiveness of clothes or finding clothes in general.
No one is advocating forcing anyone to do anything. Don’t put words into our mouths. We’re illustrating that bigotry exists by relying on markets being rational in rational conditions. In rational conditions (where bigotry doesn’t exist) the plus size market would be as viable and well-served a market as the other end of the bell curve. That it isn’t proves we don’t live in rational conditions, i.e., that bigotry exists.
Now buzz off.
thin privilege is not having to shop for clothes in a tiny section of the store that mysteriously blends into the maternity section 1/3 of the way through
I’m looking at you Target!
Bahahahaha “looking at you Target”
I did not specify a store in my submission on purpose, but its good to see that at least 5 people who reblogged this figured out that I was talking about Target anyways, lol.
Because I was definitely talking about Target.
In Canada, they don’t even bother to put in a plus size section. The entire right half of the store in Montreal is dedicated to clothing. 2/3rd’s of that is junior and adult women’s clothing. They have an entire 20 x 15-ish section devoted to just stacks and stacks of different styles of jeans. The athletic section is bigger than the underwear/bra section. But no sizes past a 2X (roughly a US 18/20), and even those disappear on the racks with the “youngest” fashions.
I hope you are all using this hashtag when you see clothes you want on social media. #plussizeplease
We recently got a submission from someone asking about the goals of this blog and our brand of activism. And while I can’t speak for the other moderators (you should check out their blogs (Amanda’s Fat Body Politics tumblr and Wordpress, and Mad Gastronomer’s tumblr and archived Wordpress for a better sense of their positions), I will provide my own answers.
Even though this is ground that’s been covered before, we do have some new followers due to Amanda’s trolling article in Bitch Magazine, and it’s been a long time since I’ve done some 101.
So here goes. The quotes are the submission, and my responses are under the quotes.
A lot of this blog seems to deal with how others perceive fat people. Many stories talk about how they were “shamed” for being fat.
Well, yes. If fat people weren’t being shamed for their existence in certain areas of the world, and especially in particular contexts (like healthcare), then This is Thin Privilege would have no purpose. Privilege is when one enjoys unmerited advantages, conveyed by the culture, due to their membership in one or more groups that has a larger relative amount of social currency as a result of possessing some (usually) physical trait.
Note that this doesn’t mean some people don’t work hard to obtain or keep their privilege. Some people who work to move out of an underprivileged group into a privileged group are engaging in a behavior called passing.
It just means that the privileged state isn’t indicative of the moral character or objective worth of an individual, if any such thing can be defined in general.
My analogy for those who claim they “earn” their privilege by “working hard” is simple. Say you spent a summer counting blades of grass in your yard. That’s difficult, to say the least — grass grows and dies quickly, and it’s not in a square array so any time-saving techniques you could invent would be fraught with errors. Counting grass would be hard work, but it wouldn’t buy any privilege because grass-counting isn’t something particularly valued by our society (though a good science fiction writer or alternate historian could imagine a society that does value grass-counting).
As a result of grass-counting being disassociated with privilege, you don’t see nearly as many people engaging in a summer of grass-counting as those who engage in a summer of weight-loss dieting. It’s not because one group works hard and the other doesn’t. It’s because one behavior is backed by social currency and the other isn’t.
My question is, what exactly is the goal of this blog? Is it to change perceptions? To ask the question in a different way, if Fat Activists achieved everything they wanted, what would it look like?
The goal of this blog is spelled out all over its FAQ and elsewhere, so I won’t address that. But the second question is interesting. Note that my answer will likely differ hugely from the answer of other fat activists — no one of us is a monolith or representative of the entire movement.
My answer: If I achieved “all that I wanted” with fat activism, fatness would be a physical state that is no more or less valued by the society (or subgroups of the society) than thinness. It would be a neutral characteristic, sort of like hair color or height. Though note that I can’t say that’s a perfect analogy, because certain hair colors and textures are socially valued more (due to racism, amongst other things) and certain heights for certain people are socially valued more (due to racism, sexism and ableism, amongst other things).
I really don’t understand how you expect to change peoples perceptions and opinions - do you want to *force* companies, artists, movie directors, and writers to portray fat people in their media? What about freedom of speech and preserving artistic integrity?
I don’t want to force anyone to do anything. I believe in a process of enlightenment whereby individuals who are eager to learn seek out alternative opinions and information about issues like the construction of society, social currency, politics, and so forth. If alternative information is put out there by people like me and my fellow activists, those who are interested in learning will find it and integrate its lessons into their lives. Some might directly spread it to their social/academic/professional circle, some might indirectly leading by example, others might just integrate it into their self-conceptions and nothing more.
There are other conduits of enlightenment, like activists seeking out people who might be susceptible to new information by publishing in mainstream or popular avenues, and there’s also randomness — people finding us by accident and changing their minds without having set out to correct any incomplete or wrong information.
It’s a slow process, and doesn’t always work, and there are many who argue that the only way true change comes to pass is by force/enforcement. But as a scientist and budding economist who has studied complexity and emergent social order, I don’t think that’s the truth. There are plenty of neutral or even positive social norms that emerged through voluntary action, persuasion, or reputation dynamics — that is, through no absolute force mechanism as such.
Also, I noticed that this blog kind of ignores the fact that there are numerous health issues associated with being overweight - for example, heart disease, etc.
We don’t ignore the popular health conception of fatness. We question it. We value skepticism, especially when health narratives align with popular biases of the time. We also know very well that medical science is still relatively in the stone age — we know a lot more than we did 200, 100, or even 50 years ago, but that doesn’t mean we globally know a lot about the human body, or how to best diagnose and treat conditions, or even how those conditions emerge and present. There’s a lot of work to be done, and correlations do not a scientifically-sound hypothesis make.
And besides all that, we also recognize that even if fatness was the root cause of these conditions, that still doesn’t validate fat-shaming, nor does it suddenly make significant weight loss safe and possible for the vast majority of people, nor does it make diet pills, weight loss surgery, and other modern techniques more reasonable avenues than trying to be as healthy as possible in the body you’re in (if health is, indeed, one of your goals).
Nor does it, on that note, validate the idea that any individual “owes’ health to society or any other person (including their spouse, parents, children, etc). That’s regardless of the social system the individual finds themselves in, including regimes that enforce socialized medicine or try to claim that individuals do not absolutely own their own bodies. The ethical statement, “I own my body absolutely” lives above whatever geographical place a person inhabits, or the system they must navigate in order to practically live their lives in the short and long term.
For those who aren’t familiar with it, public choice theory has shown that in most democracies, voters on the margin (the individual vote) do not “count” as such. So the idea that an individual has some kind of responsibility to society based on being born to it, or having no choice but a bunch of anti-fat democracies or worse to choose from, is ethically false, since the individual cannot by themselves change the societies in which they find themselves.
To wrap back around to the question, if there are health conditions associated with fatness, we simply do not at the moment have reasonable therapies or remedies for those who value health. Furthermore, many of the conditions associated with fatness are only poorly understood, to the point where research can’t say whether fatness caused it, or something caused both it and fatness, or it caused the fatness, or the fatness is just coincidental. No one likes to think about how backwards medical science still is, but that’s the reality. Hopefully it will change as we map more of the genome, gather and analyze better and more data, and discover new therapies (like nanomolecules), but that’s the reality at the moment.
Also - what about the morbidly obese? Are they considered beautiful/whatever by this blogs standards? Isn’t it dangerous and a little irresponsible to be suggesting that you are healthy no matter what you weigh?
I don’t think you know what is truly “morbidly obese” or not (look at the BMI Project to see the difference). The “headless fatties,” as coined by Charlotte Cooper, used to illustrate articles on obesity represent less than 7% of the population.
Also, what does it matter what I or anyone else finds “beautiful”? The evopsychological fallacy is that, in a vacuum — that is, discounting the effects of culture and society completely — there exists an objective standard of beauty to which people who are attracted to other people follow, depending on some loose, usually transphobic, sexist, racist, sizeist, ableist, etc etc, constraints. As such, arguing for an objective standard of beauty is usually an exercise in arguing for an objective basis for social privileges and disprivileges. Since we’re skeptical on that account, there’s little hope we’d be in favor of blanket generalities about beauty (with the exception of the subjectivity hypothesis which is itself a rejection of blanket statements).
We have never suggested “you are healthy no matter what you weigh,” only that no matter what you weigh, you own your body and the pursuit of its healthfulness, in whatever form you deem most fit.
Finally, I saw a lot of posts complaining about the cost of larger clothes, and the lack of availability of larger sizes. It seems logical to me that larger sizes would be more expensive, because they are made with more material. This would also explain the lack of availability for some large sizes, as it would not be cost effective to produce such large garments. Are clothing companies supposed to lose money to preserve your feelings while shopping?
This is a fallacious economic argument that we’ve addressed many times before. Basically, more material costs pennies per yard for decently-sized shops and retailers, and considering that the average woman in the US is a size 14, would in a pure economic sense contradict the fact that most retailers and shops only offer sizes under 14, or offer a much smaller selection above size 14 and usually under size 20.
Thanks for playing. I hope this was informative, though due to the tenor of your questions I doubt this changed your mind whatsoever. But it will be instructive to the “thirsty minds” out there, and they’re the ones with the potential to make the most difference, in my opinion.
Because when thin women wear things that are huge, it’s fashion. When fat women do it, it’s a “style faux pas.”
Fuck thin privilege.
I am anywhere from a 12 to a 14 when doing normal shopping so i have thin privilege in the sense that I can generally make things work at straight sized stores. Yesterday however, i went prom dress shopping. There was not a single dress available above a 14 and i found two, yes that’s right two induvidual dresses at a department store with over 40 styles of prom dresses. Neither of them fit, as prom dresses are obstensibly sized about a size smaller then other dresses. I ended up buying a black dress from Torrid that while not a prom dress exactly should do fine. Thin privilege is being able to buy a typical prom dress.
Oh golly gee gosh, I post about a troll and some more jump on the bandwagon.
*sparkle* 8D *sparkle* <--we remember what this means, yes? Good!
Let's take these from the least offensive to the most, shall we? Fair warning to anyone who'd rather scroll past this:
we've got more tone policing, fake concern, but-what-about-the-chillllldrennnnn, and somebody would like me to die.
Saw your TiTP (and your response to a troll). I'm sorry that this happened to you and that the saleswoman was harsh. As a recent bride, I was also directed to the shapewear section of the lingerie store and I am a size 0. The reason I bring this up is because often times the wedding dress needs smooth lines from the lingerie not being lacy and needs proper support, particularly if you are going strapless. I really do mean well, but I must go anon because my blog is not personal at all.
*shrug* Well, if you hadn't gone anon and had asked me to reply privately I would've. Given that the saleswoman had asked no questions at all about what my dress looked like or needed in the way of underpinnings, and she was - I repeat from my last post - MIMING FAT ROLLS AT ME - I rather think that if I had been a thin size she would have helped me find all the lacy frilly sexy undies I wanted.
Hello. Before anything else, let me just say that I am not a troll, and I am genuinely curious. After coming across a post with some pretty heavy fat-shaming and being raised in a society that valued thin bodies, I decided I wanted to hear the other side of the argument. Among other things (but this first), I would just like to understand why bigger women think being big is healthy, when there are statistics showing otherwise. I apologize if anything I offended you, and I hope nothing did.
Hmmm, anonymous, starts out with "I'M NOT A TROLL", asks a question that could have been answered with a few seconds and one click on the page they presumably found me from, asks a question phrased to 'subtly' show that they're already right, mentions ~STATISTICS~ supposedly supporting their position without actually citing or linking to any, annnnnd finishes with a nonapology. If it quacks like a troll and anons like a troll... hi, troll. For anyone else who is HONESTLY thinking "but the media keeps telling me it's unhealthy to be fat" and is too POLITE to ask a fat woman instead of doing a little research themselves, allow me to direct you to http://thisisthinprivilege.tumblr.com/faq#whatabouthealth
Hi, I was just wondering if you know that "shaming" doesnt exist? Nobody can make you feel ashamed about something you are ok/proud of. They can remind you of something you are already ashamed of but thats not shaming since you were ashamed of it in the first place. Greetings, sciencefittness.
Wow, that's a lot of pics of nude women and Game of Thrones posts for a blog supposedly dedicated to 'bullshit-bashing'. Huh. Okay then. And no, 'shaming' does exist. Society tells everyone from babies on that FAT IS BAD, and when you grow up marinating in that it's pretty damn hard not to absorb some. Even if you do manage to reach adulthood without that horrible self-hate and fear that everyone sees you as disgusting - about a million topics, not just fat - if someone tells you you're disgusting and you don't accept it, it's still shaming even though it didn't work.
Your collarbones are supposed to show. So if at the time you were "skinny fat" (what the fuck does that even mean, if you're fat, you're fat) does that mean that now you are super whale fat?
If you're referring to me saying that the saleswoman's collarbones and wrists were 'prominent', I didn't mean that they just showed - mine show just fine too, honey - I mean that they stuck out pretty far, in a "you can't tell the state of someone's health just by looking BUT..." sort of way. Also, what is it with trolls and bad reading comprehension? I said I was a 'small fat', not 'skinny fat'. That means that although I was overweight according to society's measurements and BMI, I was still small enough to get a lot of thin privilege as compared to fatter people. And I already said what size I am now - wow, you didn't read my post much at all, did you? - I'm bangin'. (For your information, that means AWESOME.)
Hi. Sorry, but calling a thin person a twig isn't that cool, and we both know that is what you meant when you wrote that you were 'wider than a twig'. It's just not cool, so therefore, that other anon called you out on it. Maybe you're not body+ and don't care about that by 'giving no fucks'. You can call me a troll and tell me to 'fk off and die' to make MG proud, but truth still stands that twig is a derogatory term for someone thin, and your use of it was not cool.
Plus, I'm just telling you that because to might help you be a better person, more body+ and create a more better community for all of us. I hope you're having a lovely day. Oh, and hope that your wedding was/will be wonderful! :)
Whee! Tone policing! Fake concern! Oh my god, saying the word 'twig' in a fat-positive space is totally skinny shaming! Call the Internet police! I am body positive, anon dear, that's WHY I give no fucks. Thank you for the (probably included to make you sound more legitimate) nice words at the end of your (tone policing trollish) message! My wedding rocked! I shall not tell you to die, because only asshole trolls do that! Now fuck off, that'll create a 'more better' community. *sparkle* 8D *sparkle*
there are children dying all over the world and somehow you still find the time to bitch about a woman directing you towards something you didn't want in a store. hon, WELCOME TO RETAIL. hahahahahahahhaahahah oh my god what a joke. oh, darling, please take your head out of your cellulite filled ass and grow up. youre a victimizing cunt and the world would be a better place without you. again... hahahahahahahahahahahahhahahhaa you're a JOKE (another disgusted anon just for you)
There are children dying all over the world and somehow you still find the time to write vicious anon messages to a fat woman who dares to complain about someone being rude to her? I post a grumpy submission to an online blog and that makes me a 'victimising cunt' who deserves to die? Meanwhile you're... ah... what is it you're doing again? Oh, yes, you're somehow championing the cause of dying children everywhere by sitting at your computer typing shit that you don't even dare put your name to, you cowardly fuck. Why does the idea that fat people might want to be treated politely threaten you so much (there in your little troll mind palace lit by the light of your computer screen and your own glowing bile) that you have to try to pummel us back down into what you think of as our place?
*sparkle* 8D *sparkle* <--it's not working, sorry. ;)
How often have you been shopping and you come across something that is just PERFECT, but does not go up to your size? Over 60% of American women wear a size 14 or above, but only 17% of clothing sold is 14 & up. That is a ridiculous disparity.
Moreover, when some brands move into plus (ahem H&M), they throw their signature trendy looks by the wayside in favor of flowy dark fabrics that they think “work” for plus sizes. That is crap. Plus size women want color, print, and structure. Moreover, we want variety. A group this numerous cannot be a monolith, and since style is such a personal thing, we all have different tastes. I want #plussizeplease to be a way to showcase the demand for styles we’d buy and rock, and all the money brands are forfeiting by refusing to expand their sizes.
So here’s how to use it:
1) Snap a picture of a garment you love but does not come in your size. Include the brand and price, tagging the company if possible. For example, I am in love with this Zara marble print dress. I would have purchased it yesterday if it went above a size L. My tweet would be:
“.@Zara marble print sheath, $59. I’d buy it right now if it came in my size. #plussizeplease”
2) Use it on any social media – Twitter, Instagram, Tumblr, Pinterest… even Facebook supports hashtags now.
3) Tag anything you’d purchase, whether in store or online.
4) Feel free to include the size range it comes in and/or the size you think you’d need. Sizing can be tricky, so this is definitely not required.
5) Tell your friends! I don’t just want this to be a blogger thing – I want all women who wear size 14 and up to show their purchasing power and share styles they love. Let’s be unignorable!
Um, yes. I will be doing this.
Yes. I support this movement
watch me be loud as hell
ouiouifaguette said: also there’s so much more to thin privilege than just having a hard time finding clothing why are thin people so stuck on this? Like okay fine but have a multi billion dollar industry dedicated to making people not look like you and then we can talk.
(a great reply to this post about the intersection between thin and class privilege)
So they actually made clothing that you could put on your body but they didn’t have any? Thin privilege.
Me: I'm tired of not finding clothes my size! <br>
well just go to Lane Bryant! Or Dots! That will fit you! <br>
*finds out Lane Bryant is expensive for my salary and Dots is junior plus size, so some of the tops barely fit over my chest* <br>
that's why you need to start making your own clothes! Start a business on it! That's what I would do! <br>
*sewing sizes only go up to a small juniors 20, with the stock of true plus size patterns even lower* <br>
*mainstream dress forms can only accommodate a size small, and adjustable forms for plus size only go up to a size 48 in waist* <br>
*sewing classes only teach a smaller size of a garment pattern, with a vague footnote after a lot of complaints on how to make it bigger* <br>
*fashion design classes only encourage you to work with small model size in relation to a pale face, and business classes discourage you from catering to plus size because what plus size people want Victoria's secret style sleepwear?* <br>
god this sucks, I'm tired of not being able to find things in my size. <br>
wow why are you so angry? Calm down ana. Calm down! If youre having so much trouble why don't you lose weight? You shouldn't be trying to dress yourself for the size youre not anyway. That's clothes you wanna make for skinny girls anyway. </p>
It’s been said many times on here, but thin privilege is finding clothing in your size for a reasonable price.
I am a size 26-28 (depending on the fit, I can even get into a 24) with a 3x torso
I also am cursed with a small chest (I call it a curse because I admit to wanting my boobs just a little…
Your bras aren’t more expensive because companies assume you’re fat; it’s because it’s not a common size so they have to be custom ordered. That costs the company MORE money than mass producing and they don’t mass produce because since it’s not a common size, they would lose money. This is true for most of your clothing problem. It’s not a conspiracy against fat people; it’s called cost of goods.
Seriously; get over your bitterness. Not everything is a conspiracy.
Now though I do agree about the cost of goods thing, skinny/average people clothing is ALWAYS cheaper than fat people clothes. It makes no sense that I have to pay anywhere from 2-5 dollars more than what a skinny person would buy.
Also to put it like this, if I go into a sports store and want to buy nice looking workout clothes I am basically shit out of luck because Nike and them don’t really make work out clothes for fat people for the same amount that a skinny person would fit.
THAT is the underlying issue. Yeah I understand basic economics but at the end of the day, you would make MORE money providing for fat folks.
The company needs more material to make a bigger size, that’s why clothes are a little more expensive. And to be honest with you, nike is looking for the athletic build, not “fat” build, kind of client. They make sportswear. It’s great if you want to wear nike and you want to train, but not many big people do train, hence it being hard to find a fitting nike shirt. It isn’t “thin privilege”. It’s business and targeting a certain clientele.
You know how much extra material is needed for a plus-size garment? Not much—maybe a half-yard to a yard-and-a-half difference depending on the item. At what clothing companies get their yardage for, this is nothing. Certainly not enough to warrant the price hikes usually seen in plus-size clothing.
Additionally, clothes manufacturers have no problem at all rolling the costs of xxs-xl clothing into a set price. There’s an appreciable difference in yardage needed for an XXS shirt than for an XL shirt—comparable to the extra yard needed to go from XL to plus-size—, yet companies do not charge any more for an XL than an XXS. This is because the price of yardage is averaged across the sizes. Averaging prices across XXS—4XL instead of XXS-XL would result in a negligible price hike.
Gonna need a citation for “not many big people want to train”, because I know quite a few. Fuck, I’m an 18—a mere two sizes bigger than the ‘average’ woman—and I can find dick-all for nice exercise gear, Nike or no. It’s either thick sleep pants or expensive specialty store items. I don’t care what Nike does as an individual company—they’re allowed to do whatever the hell they want—but (a) I’m allowed to question their decisions, and (b) it gets pretty fucking old when not just Nike, but no major exercise wear maker makes things I can wear. Training for a 5K gets old in too-long thrift store sweatpants.